What makes our Train services so miserable?

Question

What makes our Train services so miserable?

Answer 1

The problem is that we are hampered with Victorian infrastructure, have made the mistake of giving the track to one company to operate and the trains to another, and have a daft system of performance measurement that has discouraged the train operators from providing connecting services and the like. Addressing these problems would require a root and branch rethink and a totally new approach to rail from Government, the voting (and travelling) public and the rail industry.



Then again, if the rail experience is so miserable why are there now more rail passengers than at any other time? The railways must be doing something right.



**EDIT**



Hello Asker. Just seen your additional points. Got to ask just what you are on about...?



The problem with the Victorian infrastructure is that it was designed and built at a time when 40mph was considered a high speed service. This means that the track alignments do not lend themselves to running at higher speeds. Likewise, they built the rails to go where it suited them at that particular time in history and not necessarily where we would want it to go today. For example, most Victorian industry was sited near a river or canal, which is one of the reasons why the railways follow such features. Industry today is in big estates out of town that are nowhere near the railway, making rail service impossible. The only Victorian rail engineer who fully grasped the importance of good infrastructure and getting proper track alignments was Brunel. Everyone else took the easy routes and ended up with track curvier than spaghetti.



Don't believe all these comparisons to rail systems overseas like the Swiss and Japanese. They have delays just the same as we do. They only do better than we do because they are not working their networks as hard as we are. Besides, there was a nasty crash in Japan not so many years ago when a commuter train left an elevated section of track and collided with an apartment block. The cause was found to be the driver overspeeding to compensate for a delay incurred earlier in the journey. Ask yourself this. Would you like to arrive 10 minutes late or not at all?



Where on earth did you hear that about track workers giving up all their rights? That's just rubbish. In fact, the Rules require everyone who works on the railway to ensure their own safety and that of others and to report any infringements immediately. That sounds pretty damn empowering to me. They certainly aren't drones being marched out onto the permanent way at the barrel of a gun.



There are plenty of alternative methods of travel into our towns and cities besides rail. In London there is a healthy commuter coach market, not to mention the Tube. My own preference when I worked in London was to ride in on my motorbike.



As a railway employee it does brass me off something rotten when I work my tail off doing unsocial shifts, trying my best to run to time (sometimes with spectacular results when trying to make back lost time, for which I get no thanks), working to a high standard and generally going beyond the call of duty only for some overpaid horses @rse working in the City to bray in my face about how incompetent I and all my colleagues are. Would they take investment advice from me? Of course they wouldn't!! And why not? Because I'm a train driver. So why should I be brow-beaten about my job by someone who's sole understanding of railway operations has been gleaned by ocassionally glancing over the top of the FT or Evening (Sub) Standard every now and then and tutting when it looks like they might be a tad late for their game of Bridge...?



So, what can we do to improve your lot? Well, realistically the answer is "nothing". What would you be happy with as a rail user? Another answerer joked that we'd be able to operate a perfect railway if only we didn't have to carry the Great Unwashed. He may have been joking, but there is a grain of truth in there. I know from experience that you only ever lose time in the peak periods and never gain any back simply because of the number and behaviour of passengers. Our 8 coach trains have 16 doors per side, so why do the passengers only ever use 3? Why queue at a door that people are still leaving through when no-one is using the next set? As a passenger, you have a part to play in ensuring that the train leaves on time. There's no point wedging a set of doors open for your tardy mate and then complaining that the train left late.



I'm sorry to have a rant, but unless you take the time to fully understand the issues you will never appreciate what can and can't be done when things go wrong. Yes there are things wrong with the way that the railways are being run, but it will always be those inside the industry that have the best understanding and appreciation of them. The number of people who ask me whether or not a train has a steering wheel when I tell them what I do for a living suggests to me that no matter how often they ride on trains they haven't even the faintest idea about even the most basic aspects of railway operations.

Answer 2

The railway operations have been fragmented as a result of privatisation.



The rail network is owned by Network Rail, a state-owned non-profit-making company.



The trains are operated by Train Operating Companies (TOCs)

which in turn have to lease their rolling stock from Rolling Stock Companies (ROSCOs).



The maintenance is subcontracted to various private operators.



Result: confusion about where accountability lies, inflated fares, poor service......



Basically our rail system was taken over by accountants and forced to run like every other business, i.e., to make a return for the shareholders, instead of being run as a public service.



Our railway system would improve dramatically if it were to be renationalised and run by a publicly accountable authority.



The only political party committed to doing this in their manifesto is the Green Party - none of the others support the idea, despite the fact that most rail users feel that privatisation has failed them.



Edit:

I have been travelling on trains in Britain for 50 years and in my considered opinion the standard of service has generally declined, while our fares are 2-3 times what they are in the rest of Europe. Timekeeping is poor. When the rail operators announce that '90% of trains are on time', what they mean is that 90% of trains run within 10 minutes of their advertised time. That is not good enough. Either a train runs to time, or it is late.



Much of the rolling stock may have been replaced by many trains have fewer carriages than they would have done a few decades ago. So more people are being crammed into less space. I will give you one example: the Portsmouth-Cardiff train. This used to have four carriages and a luggage van in the winter and five carriages and a luggage van in the summer. It now has two carriages or three on a good day and there is no longer a luggage van. The newer carriages are less comfortable than the older ones and there is far less space for luggage, bicycles, etc. The only advantage I can see is that the stop at Bristol Temple Meads is a few minutes shorter because the train is now a multiple unit, i.e., train with cab at either end, instead of the older formation with a loco hauling which had to run round to reverse the train.



There have been improvements recently like electrifying the Portsmouth - Southampton line (thus enabling a through electric service from Brighton to Bournemouth), but this was actually done just before privatisation.

Answer 3

Overcrowding on trains makes things particularly miserable, but this is a by-product of the privatisation of the railways (UK).



There are lots of train operating companies, and simple tasks like "borrowing" extra stock from other companies is almost impossible, mired in bureaucracy and penny pinching. Also, it means the train crews of one company are not trained on another company's traction.



The only answer as I see it is wholesale nationalisation under government ownership. Likewise the Post Office, BT, and the greedy energy firms.



Don't hold your breath, though. There isn't a real Labour Party any more.

Answer 4

London Midland have got to be taking the prize from First Great Western for worst company. There's always an excuse for delays, cancellations etc. The one I get on for work seems to be delayed near enough every day now for no reason. Then they just take carriages off so you only have 2 instead of 3 and everyone has to squash on. We never had any of these problems when it was Central Trains but ever since London Midland took over last year it's just been problem after problem after problem.

Answer 5

Get rd of the government targets that have to be met and have them provide more carriages = more seats.

Bring down the cost.

Reopen certain lines and give more stations more service



I hate people complaining about delays as these are usually down to people being hit or signal or power failures, neither of which are the TOC's fault and they usually do their best to help

Answer 6

The elites that caused this mess wouldn't care if you did. In fact that might be what they want if they think about it all which they don't. They don't care about us. They care about themselves and stocking their oversized egos. They are playing politics with Obama and the Democrats. I would contact CNN and MSNBC and other news outlets. Tell them your story. Cut back on what you can. To fill in free time, you can always read books from the library to gain new knowledge that might help down the road. Many of us are in a difficult position. My job seems safe but I don't know. The same goes for my husband. I'm not taking anything for granted. I have step kids and by all accounts - their mom and step dad are idiots. They are spending like they always have. Their step dad lost his job. Talk about pressure. My husband and I are trying to save and cut back just because we don't know. But the kids don't get it. They see their mom and she's making it tough on us with the potential more driving my husband will have to do for these new activities. She's a quitter so it may not last - probably won't. She's weak. It's stress. The unknown stresses me out. People putting other people down does not help. It's not fair. Do we have complete control? NO!!!!! Most people have not received any kind of financial education. To try to educate them when they are adults is just about too late. They don't get it. They are too used to their bad habits. They are overly optimistic. Push for financial education to ALL kids starting as early as possible - keep it ongoing.

Answer 7

John Major

Answer 8

Actually, they aren't. You make a sweeping statement without any supporting argument. What is your experience of train travel? Commuting in the rush hour? A pretty miserable experience whereever you live. Travelling at weekends and being delayed by engineering work? Necessary to upgrade the infrastructure - although a dog's dinner has been made of the task in certain areas, caused by the nonsensical way the last Tory Government privatised the railways (and people want them back - are memories really that short?). Despite the stupidities of privatisation, more people are travelling at anythime since 1947 on 2/3rds less route mileage. Since privatisation virtually the whole of the passenger rolling stock has been renewed (except a few remaining ghastly BR Pacers). New lines and stations have been opened and infrastructure restored in some cases where it was ruined by BR (e.g, doubling of tracks north of Princes Risborough, enabling Chiltern Trains to run a far superior service than existed in later BR days). Open access arrangements have allowed reintroduction of services from towns and cities long without a direct link to London - Sunderland and Hartlepool, Wrexham and Shrewbury.



Of course, fares are high, although plenty of bargains can be had, Not all is perfect by a long way - but just go and talk to people delayed for hours in an airport due to a plane not being available, or fog somewhere.

Answer 9

>> What makes our Train



Where do you live? NYC? Chicago? Boston?





Good Luck...

Answer 10

Unfortunatley the passengers or customers as they are now to be called. if it was not for them the railway would be a much better place, only joking.

No matter what efforts are placed around the rail system in this country (I have been working on them for 14 years and used to commute for 10 years before that) the basic fact is, its old, shaky, not built for the modern world, expensive to run and remember 20 years almost with no investment for improvements and most operators now only have a 7 - 12 year franchise to make a profit in. most companies fight each other and claim and counter claim over performance late running and track management is such a nightmare that staff are constantly reminded forget holding a train for a customer or late running service get it out on time! Staffing levels are down and some companies trying to cut even further the amount of staff to help you. Although the Mk 1 slam doors have gone, the newer trains are not as reliable and have more systems that breakdown as the cheaper options have been installed (our space age fleet is running on windows 95 for petes sake!!) the trains are running so many miles now as they are used further and further that the equipment is getting more used. Staff and therefore customers are more confused on what is going on with things like which company do you want, which runs over what area, what tickets are the best, which internet company or sales office offers the best prices, which discount are they bringing out next, free offer or promotions, bombarding with stupid safety announcements which no one listens too and when an important message comes out no one is listening.

The infrastructure is creaking so badly hatfield, clapham, southall are going to look like nothing compared to whats going to happen sooner rather than later, especially with the cowboy contractors employed in some casses and the companies still will not listen when problems do arise (see Liverpool street fiasco last xmas) budget overruns and increased costs are building yet the goverment (Network Rail is owned by the Goverment) have told them to slash the budget for the next 5 years in the form of billions of pounds which will mean more layoffs, more cowboys, less maintenance, they are already talking of stopping all track inspections (Hatfield / Potters Bar spring to mind) except those done by automated machine, which is fine except, for instance the newer machines are too light to detect fauls and even de ice the lines! Last winter whilst working an old 62 stock (phased out in the early 80's, used to be the non corridor rolling stock) was being used to push a de icer unit around the south area to try and defrost the DC rails at night!

Areas in the UK are still using Semaphore and Token Block signalling systems (even in the south east commuter zones with a heavy traffic system) which has NO plans to be phased out before 2020 at least in some areas due to cost.

New lines have been planned since the early 70's. For instance CrossRail was supposed to be started in 1978, it has only just been reapproved again for the 3rd or 4th time, will it happen, doubt it, too many protests and compulsory purchases on land which will be challenged delaying the scheme and increasing the costs. Thameslink 2000 project, started in 1994 with planning, its now 2008 and still no real movement on what to do with London Bridge to Charing Cross / Cannonn Street / Blackfriars area. High Speed West and East coast lines, again planned since the early 80's, Only just about finished now, still work to do on them, average increase in speed?? 10 mph!!!

High Speed 1, the Dover to Stratford Line, again planned in mid 90's when the Chunnel was just about open, really opened finally 2007 and that was almost 2008!

All those projects are running or have run at such a high cost already, its almost like a leaky bucket soaking in money.

So quite frankly there is a load wrong with the railways and no matter what happens it always will be like this unless a massive work plan is phased in.

There had my rant for the evening.

Good Luck

Answer 11

I don't know were you are from, it doesn't matter, the government runs it. And in that lies your answer.